Interviewed by Akampa (Yoshihiro Suzuki)
Akampa (Yoshihiro Suzuki), born November 1, 1960 @ 18:06:30 in Nagoya, Japan, passed away on December 27, 2009 in the early morning hours, in Caracas, Venezuela. His death resulted from an unfortunate incident that occurred during his travels. All who know and loved him are deeply saddened by his untimely death.
Akampa (June 12, 2007)
Akampa was a very dear friend and supporter of Unified Life Sciences and Noble Sciences work from its inception. He founded ULSJ (Unified Life Sciences, Japan), translated much of my work into Japanese, and continued to grow with the knowledge as we continued collaborating and expanding with the work.
Akampa was a true seeker, a sensitive, and very beautiful soul whose life and work touched many people throughout the world, including my life that of my family. One of Akampa’s passions was to live each moment fully, enjoying his travels and always seeking consciousness and fulfillment of Self as he travelled the world and transmitted love and light along his path.
Akampa interviewed me on June 11th, 2007 at noon in Pacific Palisades, California. He first published this interview on ULSJ on July 11, 2007 at 20:15 in Nagoya, Japan. At that time, he said, “I would like to give heartful thanks to Eleanor who delightedly accepted my request to interview her.” I now publish Akampa’s interview with love and as a heartfelt tribute of thanks and as a celebration of Akampa’s life and work. May we all honor him as the light of his loving soul and message will always live.
This interview is published in close to its original formatting as possible and with the photos chosen by Akampa. I have added a few photos of Akampa to honor him and so his soul can shine through to you.
Eleanor & Akampa (June 11, 2007)
Part 1: The History of Eleanor
(Akampa=A): Let me ask you about your experience encountering the Human Design System and about your background.
(Eleanor=E): My background is as a clinical psychologist; my PhD is from the University of Chicago, Committee on Human Development which was the first interdisciplinary social science program in the United States, and perhaps in the world. It program is a synthesis that integrates psychology, sociology, anthropology, and biology.
I was very blessed to work with some of the best people in each of those fields. People who were very skilled, and who were at forefront of their fields. They were among the first to do any research on longitudinal development. When I was in graduate school, my specialty was cross-cultural personality. I taught college for 3 years – I taught testing, statistics, personality, and graduate level psychology. Then, I decided that in order to help people, using the skills that I have, it would be important to work with them clinically. I went back, did a post doctoral psychological clinical internship at Presbyterian St. Luke’s Hospital, in Chicago, finished and got licensed as a clinical psychologist.
I wrote a book on marriage/divorce relationships in 1976, studied as a Jungian analyst in Chicago and Los Angeles, and built a private clinical practice. I moved to Pacific Palisades, California in 1977 because my heart was in California – it felt like home.
I began having remembrances of energy and of consciousness. I began meditating using transcendental meditation in 1973. It changed my life. I had direct experiences of energy. I knew that I needed to embrace other dimensions in my work in order to understand what was happening to myself energetically; I never used drugs or any hallucinogenics. I did not want to taint my consciousness or interfere with what was working well in me. I moved from Chicago to Pacific Palisades, California in 1977, and in 1978, I was “told” in a meditation to go to India to visit Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh’s Ashram.
(A): How long did you stay there?
(E): I spent about six weeks in India and I had, prior to that, had a reading with Katherine de Jersey. I started studying astrology in 1971. Then, I had my first astrology reading with Kathleen de Jersey in Chicago in 1973. It was life changing because she told me things that she had no way of knowing otherwise, and she showed me where she saw those things in an actual chart. I had read that astrology is the most scientific esoteric discipline.
So, by the time I moved out of California I had great trust in Katherine and in the work she was doing. She did the charts on all of my patients, who were interested. So, there were many forces that came together for me in 1977 and in 1978. I already had knowledge of astrology, psychology, cross-cultural research and a background in biology. In school, I had to decide between studying psychology, religion and literature. I almost majored in comparative religion. I love writing and reading novels, and I was very good at psychology. I also considered going to medical school. I was always interested in those areas, and in how they would come together in my work, integrating with my background, which is very psychic.
I went to India in July of 1978 and met Marvin. Actually, Katherine told me I would meet someone on the day and time when I actually met Marvin. We have been together since the day we met. He had left his medical practice in Los Angeles and had moved to India. When we met, he was planning to remain in India. However, he came back to the U.S. ten days after I did.
Eleanor & Marvin (June 11, 2007)
(A): Marvin said he would not come back from India?
(E): He had given up his medical practice and had sold all of his material possessions; he was not planning to return to the U.S. However, after we met, he came back to the U.S., and we have been together since then. At that time, I had a busy clinical practice in which I was doing transformational group consciousness work with people. I ran a transformational group every month. I was travelling back and forth to Chicago every month to work with my patients as well as working in California. Marvin and I began working together when he returned from India.
Marvin got back into medical practice; I continued doing my psychology work. We also studied and became Reiki Masters in 1982. We were the 10th and 11th Masters made in the West and we had our children initiated. I continued to do transcendental meditation and took some advanced classes in consciousness and in psychic development. We were living our lives and seeing our patients.
Over the course of some years, I worked in movie business. I did creative consulting to help creative individuals find a fulfilling path in their careers. Then, Marvin and I got involved with our cats – at one point, we had 13 cats. They have been great teachers for us. In 1996, I saw the advertisement for the Human Design System, and I recognized the Mandala.
Eleanor & Akampa during Interview
In the meantime, I had wanted to master astrology so I could find out Kathleen de Jersey’s secrets of accuracy; I studied with Pamela Crane. I went to New Mexico where Joe Allen Jones gave me access to Thurza Escobar’s materials and was kind enough to send me all the audiotapes from her life work as an astrology and esoteric studies teacher. Thus, I studied Inter-dimensional Astrology and the Star Wheel, and I took weekly private lessons with Gloria Stein here in Los Angeles for several years so that I could learn enough to ask Katherine about her secrets. She spent a great deal of time with me telling me her “secrets” after I spent several days asking questions that showed her my depth of knowledge of astrology. She trusted me to give me some of her “secrets.” We were the closest and best of friends until she died on February 9, 2005 at the age of 92.
Human Design Mandala
In 1996 I saw the basic Human Design Mandala, studied the basics, and met Ra Uru Hu who spent a great deal of time with Marvin and me. Early in 1999 and 2000, Ra asked us if we would be willing to validate the Human Design System. We signed a legal agreement in which he gave us rights to all the materials and future use of all the information he shared as well as the rights to further develop it.
In 2000, I began validating the Human Design System and doing the statistics for Types and for other factors. I found immediately that the basic Human Design Body Graph held in Types but rather than 4 Types, there are 5 statistically significant Types with their own factors and components.
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Part 2: The Multilayer that Differentiate the Twins
(Akampa = A): How about Chiron?
(Eleanor =E): Chiron activation?
(A): Do you think it is more accurate to find out the Chiron????
(E): Absolutely. I studied Magi Astrology that uses a somewhat different wheel design. It uses the Yin & Yang symbol inside the Wheel, and along with that information within the Wheel, it puts the declination of the planets. Declinations operate like aspects do. In the Magi System, the emphasis is on the importance of the Chiron. The importance of
Chiron determines what people do in their life. Magi Astrologers look at what they call linkages and super-linkages between planets using Chiron in the mix. I began looking, in the Body Graph, at whether Chiron made a difference in some people’s charts or not. I found that Chiron often did make a difference. I don’t think, however, that it would change the frequency of Types.
The Body Graph (Projector Type)
(A): From my experiences, I look at the charts and more Reflectors become Projectors and Generators.
(E): There are very few Reflectors in actual functional life. What happened in the basic Human Design information was that Ra asked a question of the ‘Voice’ when he was given the information about the design of his dog, Barley, who was with him. He asked the ‘Voice’, “If this is the Human Design, what about Barley?” The ‘Voice’ communicated to him that mammals have a different form. And the mammalian form was something that happens when we sleep, i.e., humans move into the mammalian form when they sleep.
Benny Checking Us Out
Ra assumed that sleep and dream were equal, but they are not. I realized this fact when I began looking at my own litter of cats who had been born at home and for whom we had exact birth times. Six kittens were born within two hours of time, and all them have the same basic mammalian Human Design. As a scientist, I had to look at the fact that if humans sleep and change when they sleep, mammals would also change when they sleep. I did not know where in the cats’ designs I could see their personality or where I could see the differentiation of my identical twin kittens.
One of the twin kittens died at the age of ten of cardiomyopathy and one is still healthy, now at the age 18. So if mammals have a design that is accurate, as a scientist, I needed to be able to differentiate, at that level of accuracy, between twin mammals, and basic Human Design could not do that. I also could not time the dream cycle in humans who change in their chemistry when they are in deep sleep and when they are in rapid eye movement sleep (REM), or dreaming.
I also noticed that people who are Reflectors or who are Projectors sometimes become Generators when they sleep. As a clinician, I knew that would create a very different energy in them than in someone, for example, who goes from being a Generator to being a Reflector when they sleep.
Benny Settled on Eleanor’s Lap
(A): What do you mean becoming a Generator in their sleep layer? We don’t really know what the condition is or the state of being a Generator in their sleep.
(E): I think we do. The Sacral Center is the life force energy of a being; the biological layer of our being interfaces with the archetypal collective unconscious that connects us all. When we sleep, our instincts have to continue to operate. But when we sleep our will, our emotions, and our mind turn off. Mammals do not have the same kind of personality that we do. They have much more instinctive personalities than we do. They have more instinctive personalities in the wild, driven by many more archetypal instinctive feelings, i.e., instincts that respond to the environments, respond to their needs, respond to their physiology of being and survival.
When we dream, we are in 64-gate-matrices or worlds. We are not in 15-gate matrices or worlds. When we function in our daily life, we are in the 64-gate world, i.e., the mental/interactive reality world, not just in a 25-gate biological world.
I began putting pieces together clinically and scientifically looking for what we call “construct validity” which means that different fields come up with the same theories and hypotheses based on their information. When fields overlap, the probability of validity increases so the construct is more likely to be proven scientifically, even if at the current time it is not done.
I began putting scientific sleep architecture research together. Now, we have brain scans that also validate my work; and, I also looked at the biological to see what held up and what did not. The terminology may still be more general than it will be twenty to thirty years from now. I think the constructs are valid. As I worked with the materials, and with the different layers, I was looking for the additional calculations that would give me accurate information about the other dimensions in which we function. Erik Memmert does the programming, helped with the calculations. We tested many hypotheses before we found, in fact, what would differentiate my twin cats and their physiology???
(A): Which is what?
(E): It’s in the Lunar Minute Design which triggers hormonal biology in a very specific way; you have to look deep within the data to see the difference.
(A): So, the difference is shown in the Gates or a Channel or a Center?
(E): In the Lunar Minute level it is in the lines and beneath the lines, i.e., it is specific to the degree, minute, and second.
(A): So it is in the minute layers.
(E): At the genetic structures, in terms of what is turning on and off, it is at that level as well.
(A): You do not see it in the body?
(E): You will not see it in the Solar Body Graph.
(A): No, no. I mean in the Lunar Minute Body Graph.
(E): You may or you may not.
(A): But definitely in the line structure.
(E): Yes, there might be one line that changes. That is enough on the inner plane of the genetics to see how something reacts, and/or, some other influence in identical twins. It is so.
(A): But some of the twins I encountered and I had readings with some time, although they were born two hours apart, their characters change a lot.
Benny after some cuddling decides to rest in chair
(E): Absolutely. Where did you find it?
(A): Mostly in lines, but I do not find it in Channels or Gates. So, why do you think that this happens? The differences in lines create such a vast difference in their personalities?
(E): I don’t think it is in the lines. I think it is in layers beneath the lines, or at a very subtle physiologic level, at a level we are not even scientifically able to measure yet. The nuances of the expression of physiology and hormones are released within the person so subtly that they create personality differences. It is a subtle combination on inner layers we do not yet measure.
In the study of twins, the “big” characteristics are mostly the same. It’s the nuances of the personality, twin studies show, that difference. For example, twins are going to have many of the same likes and dislikes. I don’t know if you are going to find it sufficiently in anything that is apparent in a basic human design chart. Just the way, if you don’t know identical twins, you may not be able to tell them apart. And, it’s not until you spend time with them that you then know their personalities and see them as different. It’s the same way in my work, you have to plow deep down within the inner structure of the body graph on multidimensional layers, for example, when you look at what human design calls colors, tones and bases on all functional layers.
In the Lunar Minute Charts of the twins, that’s where I began to see the differentiation even more than the Solar Charts. But, if you are working with the multidimensional layers, you recognize that the formation of the basic critical conditioning field is over a six-month period. One of the most profound components of the multidimensional system is that I recognize the importance of the consciousness conditioning field from the pre-natal layer critical phase which is eighty-eight Solar degrees prior to birth through the week before birth when the Lunar layer activates the consciousness, to two days before birth when the Solar Minute activates, to an hour and half before birth when the Lunar Minute activates.
These are critical conditioning fields that activate for everyone and there may be other times as well. But all of the Gates between the pre-natal Sun and the natal Sun, all of those Gates have been influencing the field of that consciousness, and then, the birth moment occurs and until three-months afterwards is another critical field when the baby is still considered a neonate and is functioning in an environmental field beyond just the womb. This whole three-month conditioning field forms the interactive environment. But the whole six-month period is a critical conditioning field for all humans.
House Pool is exclusively open to both wild and house ducks
This time period also activates all the planetary Gates or hexagrams of the I-Ch’ing. So, by the time a baby is three-months old, the whole zodiac, noted by the Sun and the Earth Cross in multidimensional design, has been programmed into the consciousness of that baby. And, it is a true reflection when you look at the Mandala of the macrocosm in the microcosm or that microcosm of any human being is a reflection of the totality of the cosmos as they have been imprinted on earth from the planetary influence impacting us as creatures of earth.
(A): The condition of the mother, while she is pregnant, also affects the physiology of the child.
(E): Absolutely. That’s going to affect not the genetic structure, but the way in which the genetics manifest in form. Because they can be subtly modified, in the same way, they turn on or off by triggers in the hormonal balance and in the interaction of the fetus.
(A): Sometimes I saw in the sleep layer those who carry a Channel of 28/38. They are in the whole sleep layers. They might have had some kind of struggle in their health after they were conceived.
(E): Very possible.
(A): In my case also. I have Channel 28/38 in some sleep layers. After I was born, my mother told me I went through all the sicknesses child could have. So, this is the kind of imprinting that naturally happens as a result of this Definition?
(E): Maybe. And nothing you did or did not do caused it. But, how you react to it makes a difference in who you become. I believe every individual has choices and the purpose of consciousness transcends all the limitations.
(A): So, that’s also something you can see clinically? Is this true?
(E): Absolutely.
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Part 3: Multidimensional Designs that move through Time and Space
(Akampa = A): In a way, the sleep design can be related to the biological design?
Multidimensional Mandalas
(Eleanor = E): All of the designs. And there is a 33-gate matrix that is what I call the Angelic Matrix. But it’s really how we connect to higher consciousness, the guides, angels and other beings from other dimensions who whisper to our soul and help us cross over to the other worlds. And, all of the worlds are actively functioning every minute of our life whether we are aware of them or not. We each have multiple bodies that are functional and if we limit ourselves to only reading the mental body, we lose a great deal of information about who we are. I am looking at the whole person; there may be many other dimensions yet to be found.
(A): There could be more dimensions?
(E): Absolutely. I mean in science now we know many dimensions. You know I can’t say why somebody can move beyond time and space fully and why some people have some gifts and some people have characteristics. Our design is not at that point of science but neither is medicine.
(A): Reflector or Projector turning on to the Generator while they are asleep. So in my case, I don’t have that experience but you may have that glimpse from interacting with the clients. So what would that be like?
(E): Well, you don’t have apparent experiences from your design but at some point within the development of the first three months of your life, the Moon certainly made you a Generator or the Sun made you a Generator in your design because planetary bodies move through the whole zodiac. So you don’t have to look outside of yourself to have the experience.
Eleanor & Akampa during Interview
It’s not part of what we know psychologically to occur at a specific critical time. But, for example, as you say, there were childhood illnesses. Each time you had a childhood illness was a defining moment of its own. So, what we are looking at within the design framework is what we know to be human critical times.
In psychology, a critical period is a time at which something can be triggered. Up until that time, it can’t be. But once that critical time turns on, it’s like riding a bicycle or walking. A baby can’t walk when it’s three-months old. It has to have the physiologic development within its being to turn on, e.g., to talk, or to walk, or to ride a bicycle. You know you can’t teach a two year old to ride a two-wheeler bicycle. They have to have motor coordination turned on within their physiology and then there’s a wide period when it can happen.
Riding a bicycle is something anybody can learn any time in their life, after a certain critical period. If a baby does not move through a sequence of sitting, crawling and walking, if a baby goes from sitting to walking, then developmentally they missed a critical time that can be reactivated if they know how to go back to it. But there are things that they will not be able to perceive if they haven’t specifically moved through that developmental sequence.
There are some cultures where certain shapes are not perceived because it’s not part of their learning. What the design looks at is the time when we know the consciousness is affected. We are looking at the birth moment which we know is important for everyone. And the time when a baby can reach and interact with the environment gives them cognition.
But if somebody’s mother, for example, had surgery during the last trimester of her pregnancy, we have to look at the moment to see what impact that event had on the baby. Or if in first three months of life, there was some trauma. It would be another moment that you have to look at.
(A): It would make it a little complex to find out?
(E): Well, it would. But what we have done, as in any field of science, is because it’s in the Body Graph and in what we are looking at, we imagine it is real, and that that is all there is. That’s not to say it’s the whole picture. That would be far too simplistic for science. And we are all more than the Body Graph because, as you said, the mother’s body influences us when we are in the uterus. So, we are taking out, isolating information and freezing it instead of thinking of it as very fluid. So as much as I can, I try to get the fluidity back into it.
(A): That, you see in multi-layers?
(E): Yes. We look at the Wheel as a moving fluid, transition around the zodiac.
(A): So, even though we are awake and looking around, we go through all these layers? It’s like as if we are experiencing when we are asleep?
(E): Yes. The information we know scientifically is that when we dream all brain waves are present. And, we know from scans of the brain that when we dream the information that has been in the active parts of the brain when we sleep in deep sleep are transmitted neurologically to the parts of the brain that have been inactive during deep sleep but are active during waking consciousness.
(A): That is also the time we can easily access the Angelic, the Sleep and the Biological?
(E): All of this information is transmitted???
Eleanor During Interview
(A): During sleep?
(E): During dreaming. When we wake up, there are traces of that information that we can access. We have the knowledge of it somewhere in our brain and the more we recognize that in us, the more we can be aware of it and gain access to it.
When you begin to watch how you function in all the layers, you can perceive them. So, for example, in myself, in basic design I would be considered a Single Definition Manifestor. But in the Lunar 64-Gate Chart, I am a Generator. In fact, I know that my own process has been one of always waiting, waiting, waiting, and waiting until I know deep within myself what is right for me. And I feel a certain kind of knowing – I used to describe it as “knowing with ‘K’.” It is an inner knowing and a knowing that is so strong, I knew it was very much at a different level than reality itself.
When I take action from that place in myself, everything falls into place and I am in the flow. If I attempt to push it, I meet resistance. So I am actually in Type, a Lunar Manifesting Generator. And when you look at the composite of my multidimensional charts, that’s how most people function. People just have to know how their chemistry is arranged in order to make things happen.
Eleanor During Interview
(A): So, statistic wise it is about 95%?
(E): I would guess. Ask me again in a year or two. And I will give you the actual statistics.
(A): For those who don’t have a key to this layer, I mean, the Manifesting Generator key, what is their Strategy or a thing to cope with in life? How do they manage to ????
(E): Always, everybody needs to wait until they feel an inner alignment to the self and they need to use consciousness and cognition to realize their highest potential rather than accepting anything impulsively, i.e., in the moment, without checking their own alignment.
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Part 4: Our Sacred Inner Self
(A): So, no matter what design they have, they have to follow it?
(Eleanor = E): Many people were told that they were Projectors. I have met many people who were told that they needed to be “invited” because of being a projector, and they stopped living their life because they thought they were something and they are very different than that on the inner plane. This is just an example of the kind of damage labeling by Type can do.
Eleanor During Interview
In the class I just taught there was a Reflector by basic design, who, on the Lunar level, is actually a Manifesting Generator. Now that’s a very different Strategy than a Manifesting Generator who might become a Reflector on the inner plane.
(A): What is the difference inside?
(E): Somebody who is a Reflector who is an internal Manifesting Generator would need to wait until the inner knowing deep within their core is aligned and the events outside are filtered through their own core.
You usually would not have someone in the 64-gate world who is a Reflector but rather someone who on the Sleep layer would become a Reflector and that person would need to definitely sleep on things because what they thought might be right for them one day might clear out the next morning. They are going to wake up fresh and with a new perspective. So for that person, they need to wait, probably several days, to clear what they know, whereas someone who might be a Manifesting Generator when they sleep might know their core during the night and wake up and be clear. So it has to do with when to take action and how somebody gets their inner information. We all have the inner knowledge. We all know the self. Most people are very resistant from the time they were born to changing who they are. That‘s why the children have tantrums.
(A): They are not allowed to???
Akampa During Interview
(E): Parents attempt to tell children what they are not allowed to perceive. Most children will fight that. We all know from our own experience. You know what I know about you, Akampa, personally, is that despite what anybody wanted you to do, there was an inner voice that said, “I have to follow myself rather than becoming what somebody wants me to be”. And, to the degree that you’ve been given the integrity of that Self, you feel alive ????
Garden View
Speak about realizing the self. When you look at a baby, you see who that person is right away. And the difference in parenting either causes them to resist what’s been imposed upon them or the parents work it out and teach them how to interact.
(A): It’s a form of conditioning?
(E): Well, it’s socialization. Conditioning is much more difficult. I’d like to make the distinction clear between socialization and conditioning.
(A): What about conformity?
(E): Conformity? Many people conform. But they are not conditioned. For example, I went to school. I never liked school. I would count the days and hours that I had to be in school. And the reason I went to school was because no one would allow me to do what I wanted to do without it, and rightly so. I still go to classes. I study, go to seminars, and study many things that are part of the culture and society. But that does not mean that while I’m doing that that I’m out of touch with the fact that I m making a choice in the real world to conform even though it may not be resonating deeply.
We have all gone to social events that, if we did not need to go to for some kind of outer social amenity, we would not attend. And while we are there, we put our inner divine self aside. But our divine selves are saying, “Play by the rules, live in the society, integrate the earth plane and the lessons of that; be an observer.”
I see life as a participant observer. I am always collecting data. I watch people, I enjoy them; I go out to restaurants and do all the things that look regular in life.
(A): As a psychologist, you don’t use the term, “Conditioning”, because it sounds like a negative connotation?
(E): It’s negative and when I think of conditioning — there are many forms of conditionings. There is Pavlovian conditioning that is classical conditioning, and there are different kinds of reinforcement and different kinds of extinction schedules that define many different kinds or forms of conditioning. It’s a very specific process. Human beings are socialized. They learn how to behave in their society and that’s why when we go from culture to culture, there is sometimes culture shock. Culture shock occurs because the amenities and customs change from culture to culture.
Eleanor & Akampa Deep in Discussion
But basic human nature hasn’t changed. You look into somebody’s eyes and you see the soul. And you feel the heart, and that transcends customs and languages. When we went to the Amazon and when we were with the Indigenous tribes, we did not have their language and their customs. But when we looked into their eyes, there was love. So, it’s love that’s the universal language.
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Part 5: Simply Your Self
(Akampa = A): What happens in the undefined Center? Is it also the socialization?
All Possibilities
(Eleanor = E): I see undefined Centers as all possibilities. It simply means to me that we have few filters on that angle, of the information coming in through some kind of preconceived way. So, where Centers are open, the person can experience all the possibilities coming in to them and then can decide at any moment how they want to express it.
(A): So, you don’t call that they are conditioned.
(E): No, I never speak about the Not-Self and I never speak about conditioning, not in the way that basic Human Design does. I think that’s disempowering.
(A): In that sense, then the defined Centers are ???
(E): Filters.
(A): Filters. So you have only a fixed way of doing things.
(E): We have a predisposing way of doing things. We are never fixed. Consciousness is about transcending and being one with everything. We come in to being to master that. We don’t come in to be limited by that. We come in with those filters because we are in a form. And we can transcend that form; we are enlightened. So, I see that when we have awareness and when we know our filters, we know ourselves. We move to a different level of being.
(A): Once Ra told me, “We have to be careful about the language”. So, exactly I am hearing the same thing from you. Not to use the word, “Conditioning”, but to make it more precise in a general view.
Eleanor & Akampa During Interview
(E): Remember I am a scientist and a clinician. And I’m a helper. I’m here to help people and the experience I’ve had with people who have been labeled is that does them a disservice.
(A): In what way?
(E): It keeps them limited to a set concept of the self.
(A): Like label them “Dog food” or “Cat food”?
(E): Right. What if I were to label someone as a depressed or anxious or a poor student? In fact, there are recent studies that showed that when children are labeled as “smart” or as “not-smart,” the language creates the manifestation of it. Those children labeled “gifted” despite their abilities, do better than expected; and those labeled “slow” despite their abilities, perform less well than would otherwise be expected.
In the beginning., we had the word, and words freeze form. They are not the energy that is attempting to be configured and expressed. There are limitations. We have an experience, and we put words forward to try to describe something that’s not describable.
And when we categorize someone, we are taking not who they are but instead some identifiable characteristics and putting the individual into a category that is not as brilliant and beautiful as that self that is manifesting. I’ve always been very careful. When I was filling out the insurance forms for someone clinically, I was always cautious about the diagnosis because what they were diagnosed with became their identity. I’m reluctant to give someone an identity that does not belong to them.
(A): That’s what exactly happens during childhood. Mother tells you, “You are ‘stupid”. I met a client who, from this kind of trauma, developed a kind of sense of identity, of who they are.
(E): Exactly. And it’s my goal — one of my goals in teaching “Noble Sciences Sacred Tools” that we avoid using the language to further damage people.
Eleanor During Interview
(A): So, that means we use less technical languages as possible?
(E): Yes. And we listen carefully to what people come to us for. Every person sitting and having a reading presents themselves to a professional with a sacred trust of their soul to the other person. In that very relationship is a transference which in psychology means the client projects authority on the person reading for them. If the person doing the reading says, “You are a ???,” or “You are an emotional being who influences other people’s emotions”, that person is going to stifle their expression of emotion. That’s not fair.
(A): How do you say to the emotional people, then? What is your advice?
(E): Well, a lot depend on the configuration. I might say, “Your feelings might move in cycles. And the Solar Plexus has to do with needs, wants and desires. It is part of a physiologic access of feeling, mind and instinct, whereas the Splenic Center is body, mind, and instinct. So, on that axis, be aware because it’s the Solar Plexus, make sure. Then I look at the timing of the chart. I say, “It might take you a day to know what you really feel. Try it on, see if it is real and be aware of how you are connecting with other people.” It’s about helping people be aware rather than defining who they are.
(A): But for some people who are in trouble, they are not opening up to this kind of possibility.
(E): If people are in trouble and are coming for a reading, then it’s very important to listen very carefully to what they are telling you the trouble is. I see design as a tool for professionals who already have some skills in their own field, whatever it is. And by using what they are already adept at, they can move in and help that person if they listen. But to give a formula is a mistake.
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Part 6: The Higher Self is in Each One of Us
(A): Formula means like Strategy and Type?
(Eleanor = E): There are some things about Type that held true. But, for example, as a Manifestor, I don’t feel like an “angry” Type. When I inform people or when I do things, I rarely meet resistance. So, I never say to a Manifestor, you are an “angry Type” or I don’t say to a Generator, “you are a frustrated Type” because that labels them. I might say, “There are times you want to do something and as a Manifestor you may find the timing isn’t ideal.” But, so much has to do with how the layers turn on and off. I always look for the brilliance of the self. I always look for the gifts.
Marvin & Akampa
(Akampa = A): You can see that in design?
(E): Absolutely. You follow the threads of energy around the Wheel. Within the Body Graph and within the astrology, Multidimensional design itself is the synthesis: the Kabalistic Tree of Life, the Hindu Chakras, astrology, and the I-Ch’ing and Human Design. All of the information gives you a piece of the puzzle. So, when you read it, what you see is the brilliant intelligence of the higher self being orchestrated in the cosmos.
(A): That higher self is operating inside of us, in each one of us.
(E): Each one of us is the microcosm of the macrocosm. Each one of us is one cell in the totality in itself, brilliant in its intelligence.
(A): And none of us are excluded.
(E): None of us are excluded. Each one of us is a brilliantly faceted crystal. And we can look at those crystals and see the light. Each one of us has the potential as the Creator to create. So, it’s not my job to tell any person how to create their life. It’s only my job to help people create the life that they feel they want to create. They are here to create in their own way, in their own brilliance. And to the degree that each individual takes responsibility for creative brilliance in their own life, with their intelligence, the world becomes whole. When we focus on the negative for anyone, we create negativity. When we focus on the positive, we create positivity.
(A): What you are doing is choosing the latter.
(E): I am choosing the light. I am choosing the law of the attraction in the positive. I am saying that in this moment what we project ahead creates it. I’ve been a Transcendental Meditator since 1973. Maharishi said when one person of the population changes their thought form and changes their vibration, it ripples out to the whole. If all of us are changing into the positive light, then the illusion around us, what we create, changes.
And if we tell people you are not, and they believe they are not, or if we say you are conditioned, you are stuck, you are fixed they create that and the next moment follow. We live in a world of all possibility. Maharishi is brilliant. You know the evidence for effect when people meditate in a group and the ripples it creates is scientifically validated.
Akampa with Anna Bahlinger-Cetin
We have scientific validation of the effect of prayer. So, in my view, we need to use design in the same way. It’s a view of the crystal of the auric fields. And we have to find the brilliance in the Center for each individual we touch. A sacred trust is given to me when I have a patient come to see me therapeutically; I listen to them, and I look at their design. I can go right in to how they may have been thinking in a certain way. And so, I might be able to focus on them at a slightly different angle to help them see themselves differently. As soon as they open their mind to see their inner integrity, their life changes. If I told them that they were living in a way that had no integrity, it would push them down it would keep them stuck. We make choices, all of us, in our lives out of our intelligence. We just have to find what that intelligence has been. I love telling people to look at stories of their lives. It’s all in the story. Right there. Other questions Akampa?
(A): That’s enough.
(E): You look very happy.
(A): Yes!
(E): Thank you.
Akampa, Eleanor, & Marvin
Eleanor & Akampa
Note: With Special thanks for Anna Bahlinger-Cetin for photographing the interview.